and we had it all right from the start

"happy" and "red bull & hennessy" by jenny lewis & ava wilder's incredible new book

This week’s newsletter is a Special Ava Wilder Fan Edition because when I say I am a huge fan of Ava and her books, well . . . let’s just say if I had a burner Goodreads account I would absolutely post a review that went like this:

Wow, Shouty, could NOT have said it better myself ;)

Ava’s first book, How to Fake It in Hollywood, was angsty fake dating celeb romance GOLD, and her second book Will They or Won’t They MIGHT BE EVEN BETTER. I just loved it so much; I read it in a haze of sweat and stomachaches and toe tingles and maybe that makes it sound painful but trust me, it hurt in all the best ways.

My brief summary of the book: Lilah and Shane were long-time costars on Intangible, a show that in my mind had serious CW vibes and I mean that as the highest compliment. On screen, they have incredible will-they-or-won’t-they chemistry, but behind the scenes . . . it turns out they did, and it ended badly, and now they most decidedly won’t. Lilah leaves the show — ostensibly to pursue movies but really to put some distance between her and Shane. But years later, her movie prospects in the toilet, Lilah returns to Intangible to film one last season with Shane. The way they still care deeply about each other is PALPABLE, even as they profess to hate each other, and I loved their journey to figuring their shit out and finding their way back together.

I asked Ava MONTHS ago if I could interview her for my newsletter, and if so, what song she would want to talk about in connection with her book. She immediately listed two incredible songs that fit beautifully; I put it on my To Do list and then just never sent the email; I finally sent it the day before her book was due to come out and apologized for being such a piece of shit; she emailed back with her answers and assured me I wasn’t a piece of shit, how sweet is that??

So, with that context, here’s an interview with Ava Wilder about Will They or Won’t They, Jenny Lewis, sexual tension, home office decor, and what it feels like to have two books out now:

AT: First of all, AS YOU KNOW, I am highly obsessed with your books and particularly Will They or Won't They. Who is your favorite will-they-or-won't-they couple of all time? Or at least one that was inspirational to you as you were writing? 

AW: okay THANK YOU for that and also for letting me crash your newsletter!! 

This question kind of stumped me right off the bat because, despite watching a lot of TV, being a romance writer, and literally writing a book about a famous TV couple, I’ve never been much of a shipper in terms of my own media consumption. I think it might be because for me, the tension is inevitably more interesting than the consummation. (This attitude probably also comes through in how I structure my own books lol). So on that note, I’m going to go with Benson & Stabler from Law & Order SVU, because I have to respect the narrative sadism of keeping them apart for literally a quarter of a century with no end in sight. Their fans are the strongest people alive.

I actually cannot watch SVU because I find it Too Upsetting BUT even I know about the long-time ship of these two.

You picked Jenny Lewis’ “Happy” as a song that connected to the book and after I really paid attention to the lyrics I was like OOF YES. Cause I can't remember why I hated you/can't remember why I still do and but my mama never warned me/about my own destructive appetite/or the pitfalls of control hit me in particular. How do you connect this song to Will They or Won't They? 

thank you for being extremely gracious when I answered the question “would you like to talk about one song related to your book” with “okay, but how about TWO songs?” 

Building book playlists are a big part of my writing process, and I usually try not to double dip artists, so “Happy” didn’t end up on it until the very end because “Red Bull & Hennessy” was an early addition. But I couldn’t NOT put them both on there, and it only felt right to talk about them together. Jenny Lewis is so good at writing about messy and complicated relationships, and these felt like two sides of the same coin: aggressive and sexy and self-destructive, which then transforms into introspective and earnest and sad. 

For me, the best book playlist songs have lyrics that feel like the inner monologue of one or both of the characters, and these are both very much Lilah songs to me. You already honed in on one of the most fitting lyrics in there (I can’t remember why I hated you/can’t remember why I still do) but I also love I like watching you undress/and I think we’re at our best/by the flicker, by the light of the TV set which is so quiet and intimate and how I wanted the Airbnb scene to feel. Since so much of their relationship is public, there’s a lot of yearning surrounding those private moments. But to me, this song — and Lilah’s character arc — is about how happiness is within her grasp if she can just figure out how to get out of her own way. And of course, “Red Bull & Hennessy” is very “I hate my ex but I’m also still horny for them and I’m confused and annoyed about the whole thing” which could basically be the back cover copy.

Yeah, “Red Bull & Hennessy” is another perfect Jenny Lewis song for your book — it has such a simmering sexual tension with that self-destructive streak that I feel like is your specialty. HOW do you write sexual tension the way you do?! And in case you’re having the impulse to get all modest and self-deprecating, I’ll rephrase to ask what do you think are elements of well-written sexual tension and then you can just take it from me that you’re doing them.

hahaha thank you for pre-empting my self-deprecation. That’s very nice of you to say!! As I mentioned above, that tension is my favorite thing to write. I think for me the key to tension is AT-tention (groan, sorry). [No, I agree completely!!! And lean into this wordplay, I love it!!!] When a character is around their love interest, they’re fixated on them to a degree that is frankly embarrassing for them!! They’re noticing every little thing about them, and noticing the other person noticing them, and wondering what it all means, and fantasizing about what they hope it MIGHT mean; rinse and repeat until happily ever after.

Do you listen to a specific book playlist while you write? Do you need music without words? Silence? The ambient sounds of a coffee shop? “Jellicle Songs for Jellicle Cats” on repeat? I always wonder about writers’ writing habits in general but the ones about music in particular.

I don’t really have any hard and fast writing habits around music (or in general, honestly). I do make book playlists, but they’re more for when I’m driving around/doing chores/taking my dumb little walks and thinking about the characters. If I’m writing on my couch, I like to stream music videos on my TV, which is the perfect amount of audiovisual distraction to tune out/zone out to, depending on my needs.

(“Jellicle Songs for Jellicle Cats” is just about getting pumped up to face the day; the world isn’t ready for whatever I would write while listening to it) [Okay, but I feel like *I’m* ready???]

Since I know you’re currently in the process of redecorating your home office — what are three essential items you plan to have on your desk/on your walls? You don’t have to tell me about the “What If the Hokey Pokey Is What It’s All About” sign because I already know about that one. 

lmao thank you for asking! We moved into our house two years ago and the office has been a keep-the-door-closed-when-company-comes-over disaster ever since. But I finally said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and I’m very hyped with how it’s going! Three non Hokey Pokey-related things I'm excited about:

• we moved in with the exact right number of bookshelves for the amount of books we already owned, which meant for the past two years I’ve had boxes of my author copies and ever-expanding piles of romances in every corner. Through the magic of Facebook Marketplace, we were able to find a bookshelf in the bizarre dimensions we needed (seven feet long and three feet high). No more stacks! No more boxes! An aesthetically pleasing rainbow of romcom spines! We love to see it!

• my husband made me two giant pinboards to hang behind my desk, and I’ve been having a lot of fun going through all the weird little pictures I’ve collected over the years to build it out into a giant collage.

• I have this little talking toy of the Sanrio character Gudetama on my desk, who is, according to Wikipedia, “an anthropomorphized egg yolk whose main traits are laziness and sadness.” One of my husband’s nicknames for me is The Egg (unrelated), so obviously I really identify with his whole deal. 

Wow, “laziness and sadness!” This is why representation is important; I feel so seen!

You recently posted a hilarious little IG story (all your stories are hilarious to me) that said something to the effect of everything you wanted to say about publishing a second book was more than could fit on a baseball hat. I know it’s also probably more than you can fit in a newsletter answer, but as someone who’s also about to have my second romance come out soon . . . what’s the second book process been like for you? How was it different than your debut How to Fake It in Hollwood? 

Ohhhhh boy, saving the best (?) for last!! I’m writing this the night before pub day, so I’m already worried what direction this will take lol. (and thank you for saying my stories are hilarious because Using Social Media As An Author stresses me out so much) [I have SO MANY thoughts on social media, social media As an Author, etc., seriously would like to have a round table on this subject but imagine me clicking through a PowerPoint with screenshots of Ava’s stories and me with my little laser pointer overexplaining Spongebob memes and why I think they’re effective]

I think the biggest difference is that I no longer had the clean slate and new car smell of a debut, for better or worse. The ups and downs felt a little more manageable because I had been through some form of them before, but I definitely felt the reception — both good and bad — of my first book hanging over me, which added a level of (fully self-imposed) pressure to this one. It’s very surreal to think that it’s finally coming out; I started writing it more than two years ago, so it’s been living in my head for a loooong time (but at least not rent-free because my advance probably counts as rent). I still struggle a lot with managing my emotions around publishing stuff, but I think I’ve gotten better at holding onto the highs and letting go of the lows. [All of this resonates a lot with me, by the way!! The amount of time between when you write a book and when it actually comes out in particular can be a real trip.]

Okay, I know the above graphic says “Preorder” and technically the book is now out, but — I have it on Good Authority from Ava’s Instagram that if you order ASAP from Best of Books you can still get your book signed/personalized and possibly get an art print/ghost tattoo while supplies last!

I have become such a slut for preorder swag, I swear. I NEVER used to preorder books; in fact I used to be almost Righteous about how I’d wait until it was out in the store and go pick it up myself in person, thank you very much. (I’m sorry! I just didn’t know!). But now I see as an author how much preorders/orders in that first week really help (you never have as good a chance to hit a bestseller list as in that first week! your preorder/first week sales help send a message to your publisher and booksellers that your book is in demand! etc. etc.) So now I preorder with abandon AND that means I often get my books signed/personalized AND with sick swag??? AND it means I get surprise little book mail throughout the year (surprise because I don’t always remember what I preordered)??? AND I support indie bookstores all over the country??? Past Alicia didn’t even know what she was missing.

(obligatory reminder that you can preorder With Love, from Cold World from my local woman-owned, queer-owned indie Tombolo Books, and you’ll get an art print + postcard + sticker sheet, and I’ll personalize it with whatever you want, just write it in the comments section, etc. etc.)

Currently reading . . . Speaking of indie bookstores, I visited a wonderful shop when I was down in Dania Beach, My Mama’s Books, Records & Cafe. The vibe was immaculate (Prince playing on the speakers; lots of eclectic art; a little area set up for live music) and I was in one of those moods to just buy whatever book struck my fancy with no preconceived agenda.

I ended up picking up Nonbinary, a memoir by Genesis P-Orridge, because it sounded interesting and the photo on the cover was so arresting.

I’ve been reading slowly on my lunch breaks and really enjoying it!

I was a little nervous about this book, ngl, because I didn’t know anything about Genesis P-Orridge going in and usually that’s not my experience with a memoir. (My husband, on the other hand, has deep roots in industrial music so immediately knew who I was talking about and started listing things about them that I could only be like, yeah . . . I read that on the back cover . . .) They also were a counterculture icon, with an opening prologue about an encounter they had once with Beat legend William S. Burroughs, so you’ll EXCUSE ME if I was a little worried the writing would end up being so avant garde that I’d somehow be lost or find it hard to get into.

I’m sharing all of this only to say that I went into the book with all that trepidation, yet nonetheless intrigued, and I think that experience is part of why I’m loving the book so much now. It’s actually very accessible; they write in such a straightforward and conversational way that feels like a friend telling you a story; they led such a fascinating life; and they’re reminding me all the ways that you should push back and make art and be weird and find your people. idk I highly recommend it!

watching . . . I’ll tell you what I’m NOT watching, which is The Descendants. I went to a kids’ birthday party this past weekend and they played some songs from that franchise, which reminded me . . . I fucking love those movies. So tonight I excitedly asked the kids, hey, want to watch The Descendants for old times’ sake? And they . . . didn’t lol. I will watch them on my own! I’ll be chillin’ like a villain and then see if they don’t find their way out to the living room when they hear those absolute bangers start to play.

listening to . . . My music listening has taken a real hit since my AirPods stopped pairing with my phone and now I’m forced to WORK in SILENCE (isn’t this specifically covered by the Geneva Convention???) But my audiobook right now is The Devil in the White City, which my husband got obsessed with right before we went to Chicago so he could point out all the old World’s Fair sites. So now I’m listening so I can say things to him like, “How about your boy Olmstead saying that there’s no point to having boats on the lagoons if they’re going to ‘antagonize the poetic object?’” Love talking mild shit about a landscape architect from the late 19th century!!!